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Treachery and Treaties

 
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Agnar
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 05:20    Post subject: Treachery and Treaties Reply with quote

Nobles of the galaxy,

We herebey serve notice that Zamonien are NAT-breakers!

Some time ago, the imperator Surst quit being a member of our allies, Underverse. Immeadiately after this he attacked us. His motivation was to help his friend from another galaxy (.de), and in this he succeeded. The attack took us by suprise, and delayed our plans, but we accepted this as a legitimate strike. We quickly attacked and integrated Surst. He signed a NAT with us and he expressed suprise and delight that we were lenient in our demands.

Surst has since changed his name, and now calls himself Liam. Liam (Surst) recently gave control of his empire to the evil despot, Robinhood. This obviously gave us concern, and we were correct, as yesterday Robinhood jumped the Zamonien fleet into range of one of our members and attacked.

Liam may not have been in control for the attack, but he must be responsible for his house.

Either Liam (Surst) told Robinhood that he could attack, or he did not. If Liam instructed Robin to attack, then he knowingly breaks the NAT, and is not the honourable imperator that we thought he was. If Liam did not instruct to attack, then he is foolish to trust his empire to someone who would not respect his treaties. If Liam did not instruct attack, then perhaps Liam should be angry at Robinhood. Either way, we must consider Liam responsible for his attack against us.

We hereby serve notice that Zamonien are NAT-breakers. If any members of that house feel that what their house did was wrong, please get in touch immeadiately. Further, we suggest that if Robinhood is willing to break a NAT like this, then perhaps those that have NATs with Troja should look carefully. We serve notice to the community that we take NAT-breaking very seriously indeed.
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Black-Skull
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 08:41    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear folks of kosmor.

I don't know which side have broke the NAT.

Of course its look all very convinced - Liam shoot down One-Of-Many to part the fleet of Agnar, which fight against Troja. Robinhood represent Liam, so are his motiv : the war Agnari against Troja. Very convinced !!!

But that are only the Agnari-picture which all guys and girls shall see.

The trust is, One-of-Manys ships stands now 30 LJ from Agnar, and can strengthen his WP until his jumpdrive reloaded. The Reconquer of his WP is not a great problem. And the loosed ships is probably only a step, to heal One-of-Manies Finances, because he have arround 200 H4 of Agnars WP, and this ships cost much money.

Agnar do must wait not one turn. Agnari forced Liam to a Self-Defence Shoot-Down, to prevent a a attack of the noble House Sinn_Fein. Agnari did also attack the House Sinn_Fein on a other part of the limes, and destroyed so any defenders of Sinn_Fein.

Member of the House paveyj (house Agnari) conquered a solar system
from Major Liam (house Sinn_Fein) (destroyed combat power: 1610).


I think that don't look how a surprice-attack from the House Sinn_Fein, in the order of Troja - its look more after a intrige of the mightful House Agnari with the target to annihilate this House. Agnari believe perhaps, that it are victourious here in the Trojan Area, but still we fight for us freedom.

Black Skull
Military Advisor of the Trojan Empire
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Gozer
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:31    Post subject: Reply with quote

On one side we have documented facts detailing Liam's treachery. On the other we have speculation about what Agnari may have been planning. Had Agnari wanted to destroy Liam, we could have done so immediately after he was defeated, as he was completelt defenseless. Why wait until we are actively engaging Troja?

Agreements are based on facts, not speculation. I trust my fellow imperators see through this weak attempt to sway public opinion.
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Agnar
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:16    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is a nice tale blackskull, but the documentation shows the truth of the matter. Zamonien attacked Agnari (twice now), just as Troja and her pirates attacked Agnari. We have defended ourselves, and we will prevail.

There have been a few organised planet exchanges in the past after Sursts attack and subsequent defeat. These were agreed between the imperators involved. Again, i am sure that the imperaotrs can produce documentation, probably direct from Surst (Liam).

Show me any evidence at all for your claims blackskull... You are simply playing political piracy as you do military piracy. Are you seriously trying to suggest that we organised for Surst to go on holiday, that we dictated for him to give his account to Robin, that we arranged for Robin to attack us using that account, that we arranged all of this so that we could then attack Surst!?!?!

You may convince some people that blue is actually green, but i am sure that most people see through your attempts. Certainly those in the area, and those involved, know the truth.
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Carboneater
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 14:42    Post subject: Reply with quote

BS, you said that we can only see the scene as Agnari describes it.

-And what does troja says of this agression?

BS, you said something fool of Agnari attacking first, and that destroying SInn-Fein was their goal to help their way in the war against troja.

-Aren't you the one who said that any one too little should wear the name of Troja or Agnari. Being considered as a wing is the same I think.

BS You said that the attack may be a faint to destroy ships to gain some money.

-I have a similar number of H4. I can tell you that if you need to destroy your ships to build some others, or to afford the others, I can tell you that you're far from a great stratege. When I was building my fleet, I had a net loss of 1 million/day. In five days, I've been able to make many millions profits while still building ships. So I don't beleive this.

BS, in your identification, you told every one that you were the military advisor of Troja.

-1. You forgot something in your identification:
you're also a pirate and a spy for the Troja

-2. I didn't knew that we could gain grades like these with a NAT, and also a protection... I thought it was in an alliance that we may have a chance to gain this. I'll ask RobinHood to have one too!

Black-Skull, I've read you often enought to see what you try to do: make peoples beleive that being a pirate is morally-acceptable. I'm not sure you've been able to convince many ones. Now, you try to discredit Agnari, after you lost your chance of destroying it militarilly. Thanks to Underverse... You said that the ones who weild the name of Troja or Agnari must be strong enought to. I find it strange that the day you do write it, you stay near Robin to protect yourself before jumping...You're a strange imperator...

Carboneater
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JackONeill
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 04:19    Post subject: Reply with quote

==================== Official Statement of the House Troja ====================

The House Troja wants to make clear that the pirate "Black-Skull" is no member or wing of Troja.
Of course we are in contact with him, his activities in this area are also directly concerning us
and our interests. But the decisions of the house are made by the house leader RobinHood and
the inner circle of Troja.

The attack on One-of-Many is not Liam's (Surst's) fault, as RobinHood already wrote in other
public channels.


best regards

Jack O'Neill
Information Office - Troja

================================================================
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Gozer
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 09:42    Post subject: Reply with quote

Liam's decision to give control to RobinHood makes it Liam's fault.
He was either foolish or this was planned to give him plausible deniability. Either way, he pays the price.
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paveyj
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:11    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to clear this up, BS, my Fleet attacked that planet when it became obvious that surst was going to attack One-of-Many. One of Manys H4 fleet "retreated" to the said planet beforehand and was accidently destroyed by myself. Therefore no "defenders" of your terrorist organisation were destroyed, but actually ships of an ally.

I have already apologised to OneofMany for the incident and we have both agreed the blood of those men are on the hands of Robinhood for his sneaky and underhanded attack on Agnari
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alphabravo
Major


Joined: 15 Feb 2004
Posts: 827
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:34    Post subject: Reply with quote

it sounds to me like the blood of those men are on the hands of he, who didnt see this coming, who was so "sure" that Surst would attack - so should surely have known where these ships were coming

either way, if you didnt know he was going to attack, then it was an initial strike against surst, if you did, then it was an attack against an ally
and whichever way, your WP was within 1 days flight of Surst, so maybe he thinks that this was the act of agression, and that he was simply retaliating to this
so whichever way, you could blame the "attacked"

of course i dont believe this, but he would have almost as much right as to claim this, as you would have to claim to the contrary

if you want to be seen as right, then you have to do everything to avoid anything to the contrary - which would have to include not retaliating until at least the day after the initial agression

because of this, i dont think that you can rightfully claim that Liam started this, of course he did... be you cant put a very strong claim to it, given that retaliation part 1 happened at teh same time as the "first" move.
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Major alphabravo in the house Ashera
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Agnar
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 13:27    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord alphabravo says "who was so "sure" that Surst would attack - so should surely have known where these ships were coming"

We were sure, because Surst himself told us on the eve of the attack that this was comming, so we were able to start our defence immeadiately. The Agnari error was in not calculating correctly where our Housemates ships would retreat to. As my housemate says, we havel long since dealt with that among ourselves.


Lord alphabravo also says that "if you didnt know he was going to attack, then it was an initial strike against surst"

As i say, Surst declared war to me directly, so i would say that this is considered "starting" the war. He readilly admited as much in his surrender terms, and i am sure that he will confirm this in person.





As for what is happening now, well... Robinhood claims that he acts on his own initiative in attacking us, and that Liam did not want to do so. Regardless of whether Liam is responsible for this attack or not, for the next 22 days Robinhood has control of Liam's account.

What else are we supposed to do? We did not start this, but we must defend ourselves! We simply cannot ignore anything Robinhood does with Liam's account for the next 22 days, hoping that Liam will put it all right when he returns... No, the damage is done, and we must stop him causing any more.


Last edited by Agnar on Fri Jul 28, 2006 19:31; edited 1 time in total
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paveyj
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 15:55    Post subject: Reply with quote

My words exactly, Agnar.When one knows war is coming all one can do is fight to the best of his/her ability, which is exactly what i have done.

I admitted my mistake at attacking a planet which held an ally's ships, and apologised for not having the forsight of reckonising the possiblilty that a blue-on-blue action (or friendly fire) would occur. However, as i stated earlier, such an incident would not have happened if liam/surst/robinhood had not attacked us in the first place.

Im sure you (alphabravo) have taken such considerations into account but it seems neccessary for me to explain my actions further. At the end of the day such matters are irrelevant; Liam has attacked Agnari, we are at War, and we are going to fight it. War occurs when negotiations and politics breaks down, and indeed we have granted Liam peace already without result in the past. Liam clearly has no desire for peace with Agnari.

By attacking an Agnari member he has ignored the conditions of our generous ceasefire and must now pay the penalty. Regardless of who is in charge of Liams account, he must take responsibility for his decision to grant temp replacement powers to a sworn enemy of Agnari (he must have known what was going to happen, afterall).

None of us in the higher echelon of Agnari are warmongerers, and we would welcome peace if it is offered to us. But of course, Robinhood must answer our requests for the return of all stolen planets plus compensation to our ravaged allies. Until he does this there can be no peace, and people like me will have to continue to dream...

Paveyj
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