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Planetary Transfers & Market Sales/Purchases
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Would these be desirable?
#1 is a good idea
17%
 17%  [ 3 ]
#2 is a good idea
23%
 23%  [ 4 ]
I like them both
29%
 29%  [ 5 ]
They are both bad ideas
17%
 17%  [ 3 ]
Ok...but with modifications (comments?)
11%
 11%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 17

Author Message
Lordling
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:39    Post subject: Planetary Transfers & Market Sales/Purchases Reply with quote

[1.]
Suggest players be allowed to queue planets for transfer/sale.

For example, we all know there are limitations on this action, i.e., one per game turn, and observation of housemember minimum balance.
Would it be an improvement if we could sell/transfer a system once per turn, even if the recipient had not yet accepted, and have them queue up in the list?

[2.]
Propose the ability to issue "standing orders" for Market transactions.

This would allow the player to set up recurring transactions for commodities which are needed on a regular basis. Sort of the way the automatic shipping works from system to system. With the ability to set "high" & "low" values for each repeating transaction, i.e., "I will pay no more than this amount for this commodity/I will accept no less than this amount for this commodity". As a bonus, provide the option to limit this recurring action to a set period of time.


~As always, I plead forgiveness if others have suggested these ideas in the past.
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alphabravo
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Joined: 15 Feb 2004
Posts: 827
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 13:47    Post subject: Reply with quote

1 would be a nice idea in theory, but soon you can see why it couldnt work

if you sent a nice big queue of planets to one player, who didnt accept them, then could then instantly accept them all in 1 go, or a player could get rid of all of his planets in 1 go
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Agnar
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 15:40    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally, I like both ideas. I have been keen to see standing orders on the marketplace for a long time.

It has been suggested before, but rejected asit could cause hufge server loads if too many people put too many standing orders for each good. This problem could occur, for example, when goods are sold from many different locations/planets. Personally, i hope that limiting this to one sale and one purchase standing order for each good type would suffice to counter this problem. One could choose which planet the supply comes from, but only get to choose one place, and one order, per type of material.

As for the planet trade, i still think it would be a good idea if one could make a queue of planets. The problem of building up and having multiple planets transfered at once could simply be remidied by not allowing the queue to advance to the next planet until the first one has been accepted.
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Lordling
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 19:04    Post subject: Reply with quote

alphabravo wrote:
1 would be a nice idea in theory, but soon you can see why it couldnt work

if you sent a nice big queue of planets to one player, who didnt accept them, then could then instantly accept them all in 1 go, or a player could get rid of all of his planets in 1 go


As Agnar said, a limit on the queue processing would fix that.
Even the ability to "swap" planets "1 for 1" in the same turn would be a big improvement.
I believe that the limit of only 1 transaction (buy or sell) is too restrictive.
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Locutus
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 14:35    Post subject: Reply with quote

Idea #1:
Are you proposing that a list be sent for all the planets, like an in game menu with prices predetermined? That would definitely remove a lot of the delay with planet trades. I like this idea.

Idea #2:
Purely based on server load, I think there should be a limit to this system (as Agnar proposed). This idea was brought up a few months (years?) ago, but I don't remember by whom. I think that a fair limit would be determined by Maelstrom, and if it is too low, then we can just ignore it for now.

Overall, good ideas.


Last edited by Locutus on Fri Jan 05, 2007 14:17; edited 1 time in total
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Nikoy
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 19:45    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course - very good ideas! They both can be made to work properly.
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Carboneater
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 21:04    Post subject: Reply with quote

the idea #2 would be nice, for myself, as I always used to get more ressources than my factories were able to convert, I'd really enjoy this, so I can get a new comon income.
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michimike
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 07:01    Post subject: Reply with quote

Number two would overflow the marketplace. And it is not realisable: what happens if there are not enough goods in your stock? It cancels? Or just does no deal this day? And if you want to buy for example one Goliath each day.... what happens if you only get the Lasers? And the next day only Lasers again? You will soon have no mony left, your stock is full of lasers and you can't build any H10.

But number one is a good idea, if I understand it correctly!
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Lordling
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 08:16    Post subject: Reply with quote

michimike wrote:
Number two would overflow the marketplace.

I don't think so, but I'd have to see a Market Summary report; I suspect it's graph is more like a roller coaster, than a steady stream of transactions.
michimike wrote:
And it is not realisable: what happens if there are not enough goods in your stock? It cancels? Or just does no deal this day?

That particular transaction would fail, but the standing order would remain in effect until you freeze it or cancel it entirely. That's basically what happens now when you lose a bid or no longer own a planet which was receiving shipping, so why not the same response when your stock is too low?
michimike wrote:
And if you want to buy for example one Goliath each day.... what happens if you only get the Lasers? And the next day only Lasers again? You will soon have no mony left, your stock is full of lasers and you can't build any H10.

You can't fix stupid. Wink The player should soon notice if this is happening (from the information in their market report), and freeze or cancel the orders. Perhaps an option to specify the number of orders (or "days to run") would lessen the chance of something like this happening.
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michimike
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 08:23    Post subject: Reply with quote

But what you can't controll anymore is, that stupid players make many impossible orders like buying 10000 H11 for 11 credits or selling 1000 p1 for 10000 credits each.... or he sells and buys the same product... anyway you can't control the prices anymore and you can't see the right offer you have to make, when you want to buy something.
If this happens one day, it doesn't matter, but if it happens as a standing order that would be very bad for the market place...
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kautzinger
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 14:51    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, thought about #2...

and I think it is better not to invent those standing orders!

Because I guess from that day on most of all orders would be standing orders for the same price, esp. raw materials (cause you have the ongoing same amount coming from your mines that you can sell, but the amount of components changes).
If any of the "bigger" players would buy or sell like 100.000 of each raw material each day (because he can: having enough goods or enough credits) for a fixed price, prices won't change, trade will slow down, it'll become boring. I prefer to react to the market!

If yes:
1/ maybe a short time period of 3-5 days, and
2/ an integrated automatic feature for partial execution within that period (i.e. standing order for 100.000, on the first day 20.000 are executed, for the next days 80.000 are left and so on).

regards
kautzinger
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alphabravo
Major


Joined: 15 Feb 2004
Posts: 827
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 19:50    Post subject: Reply with quote

kautzinger wrote:
well, thought about #2...

and I think it is better not to invent those standing orders!

Because I guess from that day on most of all orders would be standing orders for the same price, esp. raw materials (cause you have the ongoing same amount coming from your mines that you can sell, but the amount of components changes).
If any of the "bigger" players would buy or sell like 100.000 of each raw material each day (because he can: having enough goods or enough credits) for a fixed price, prices won't change, trade will slow down, it'll become boring. I prefer to react to the market!

If yes:
1/ maybe a short time period of 3-5 days, and
2/ an integrated automatic feature for partial execution within that period (i.e. standing order for 100.000, on the first day 20.000 are executed, for the next days 80.000 are left and so on).

regards
kautzinger

and the 5% seller's tax? wnt this discourage people from buying and selling to themselves to manipulate the market?

for the record... i still dont favour the first idea
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Last edited by alphabravo on Thu Jan 04, 2007 15:52; edited 1 time in total
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kautzinger
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 06:40    Post subject: Reply with quote

alphabravo wrote:
and the 5% seller's tax? wnt this discourage people from buying and selling to themselves to manipulate the market?


That was not my issue!
I think that most of ther orders would allways be the same: same good, same amount, same price, day by day - that is what standing orders are about. So it'll be boring...

But to your issue:
Is it so successful to sell to your self? Prices do not stay at the higher level for a long time... And there is allways the threat, that you buy somebody else's good.

???
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Carboneater
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:13    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, in order to add m bit of challenge on the market, inflation might be good. (i.e. due to a great demand of a rare price, the selling prices will be augmented or due to a low demand of a fully disponible product, the prices have been lowered in order to try to sell it.) The broker, or a new bot acting as an imperator-affiliated market councilor, would do that job so market would be more fluid. But, sudden changes will always be significant on the market prices.
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Agnar
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:54    Post subject: Reply with quote

As things stand, i pretty much offer the same goods for sale, at the same price, every day. This applies to both raw materials, and to manufactured goods. I also set up *purchase* orders for each of the raw materials, if the price is right... I rely on the marketplace to generate income. I sell a LOT of stuff sometimes, and i always offer at aproximately the same price, yet still the price sold for varies.....

Some days, a few people will pay a lot higher than my prices when they need to recieve most of my goods, and the price sold at rises. Otherwise it gets spread around among various sellers and the price stays around my sale price (or sits there waiting until another day if the price is too low).

The sales tax (along with increased goods tranfer speed) was intended to stop people using the marketplace as a transport mechanisim, and thus stabalise the market prices. I dont think that standing orders would make a big impact, but if stabalising the market is a goal of the game, then any more stabalisation from standing orders should surely be seen as a good thing, surely? (As an asside, i was worried that the sales tax would hurt me financially, but there is still profit to be made, i simply had to raise my standard prices).

As i say, i set up these orders (for sales) *every* day, and i am sure that i am not alone. What would be the difference except that it would save me 15+ mins every day? I am *desperate* for standing orders (for sales orders at least, if not for purchase). Hell, i would even do the development myself as it would be worth my while in the long run!!
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