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how this game engine functions ?
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Ayur
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 06:46    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, assisi... only way to have same chances is to figure out the same features and use them.
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Assisi
Lord of the House


Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 314
Location: Bucuresti , Romania

PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 14:16    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes but there is need for experiments. To be sure. And I can't risk it now Sad
But I think we are on the right way Smile
Soon after the war I will start some trials with some of my friends to understand everything properly.

Regards !
Assisi
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Ayur
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 06:29    Post subject: Reply with quote

i will take part... if desired. in the name of science! Smile Wink

but only after my return...
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L-Dopa
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 17:02    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why nobody says something about the player ID? This ID is an important part to understand a lot of the game behaviour. Older players with lower IDīs are privileged at several situations...
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Assisi
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Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 314
Location: Bucuresti , Romania

PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 23:17    Post subject: Reply with quote

L-Dopa wrote:
Why nobody says something about the player ID? This ID is an important part to understand a lot of the game behaviour. Older players with lower IDīs are privileged at several situations...


At last ... a guy with ballz !!!

But ... sadly this rule doesn't work every time. Or ... didn't worked once for sure. Then ... we lost our faith in this and start to find out else.
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L-Dopa
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 04:31    Post subject: Reply with quote

(Kann das mal jemand übersetzen bitte?)

Diese Regel gilt immer. Primär wird die Spielzugprozessorreihenfolge abgearbeitet. Treffen nun 2 Kriegsplaneten in Phase 11 aufeinander wird der Spieler mit der niederen ID zuerst gesetzt. Man darf sich da nicht durch Schiffsangriffe beirren lassen, diese erfolgen ja schon in Phase 10 und geschehen deshalb vorher.

Man kann das Ganze auf schön an den GN sehen. Dort werden zuerst die Schiffsangriffe gelistet (Phase 10), dann folgen die KP Angriffe (Phase 11)
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_
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 05:02    Post subject: Reply with quote

Verräter Razz
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Tremor
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 09:26    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know enough German... L-Dopa writes about phases 10 and 11. This obviously refers to the game processor order as given in Appendix A of the help file, and the fact that ship movement/combat happens before warplanet movement/combat.

This is not news. (Which is why I understood it)

However, they also write something about the player ID, which I couldn't understand or translate. Something about the player with the lowest IDs doing _something_ first, but what?

They also give the good advice of reading the Galactic News to see which order things happen.

Underscore writes "traitor", presumably to L-Dopa.

Tremor the ever-shaking.
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Assisi
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Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 314
Location: Bucuresti , Romania

PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 09:59    Post subject: Reply with quote

As older as you are in the game ... as lower is the ID.
The lowest ID moves first. For example ... Maeli would move first every time.
Then would came blanka, Aurion Shadow ... etc.

We already knew about that. But at some point ... it didn't worked. We didn't explained that in that time. But maybe that happened because a jump happens before a normal 60 day move ?!? But I can't remember the situation so good and I can't be sure.
Because of that "failure" we didn't trusted so much in the "ID order".

Well ... this is an advantage for those with lower IDs ... but this is how this engine probably function.

Still ... wonder what Maelstroem wanted to say with "random" ?!? Razz
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L-Dopa
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:45    Post subject: Reply with quote

Assisi wrote:
... normal 60 day move ...


you mean 60 lightyears move?

Assisi wrote:
But maybe that happened because a jump happens before a normal 60 day move ?!?


whatīs the problem? at phase 11 the jumping WP jumped and the following WP follows 60LY to the new position of the jumping WP.

if 2 WPīs stood <60LY to a planet and booth set course on it, the older player, this with the lower ID, will reach him first and trigger the fight (maybe 3 party fight between house of planetholder, house of older WP and house of newer WP, such a 3 persons fight is random because of the damage the ships make)

if 2 WPīs stood <60LY from eachother and booth set course on the other, the older player with the lower ID reach first in this turn the position of the newer player and the fight ist triggered there. the newer WP doesnīt move in this case, because he "reached" the position of the older WP


@tremor: the GN today said to me, that from your WP started a shipattack with integration to WP of player leperking. all ships of leperking, they could reach your WP, was destroyed at the integration.

also i think to read:
- michimike attacked with his WP an planet from nikoy, lady_sjet reached a planet from assassine.
- this: " * Commander Claudiu (house Thauma_Templars) conquered a solar system
from Member of the House michimike (house AustrianAlliance) (destroyed combat power: 12).

* Major Gondor (house Militaris) integrates imperator
Thaumaturg (former house Thauma_Templars) into his empire
(destroyed combat power: 41914)."

must mean, that WP thaumaturg flys to a planet of michimike, but has ships of claudiu on it, which won the fight and conquered the planet.

a WP of the house militarias (but not gondors WP) has reached the Homeplanet of thaumaturg. this WP got ships from gondor on it which has won the fight/take the last shot.

- assassine WP reached a planet from nikoy.
- nikoy WP reached homeplanet of michimike.


and so on...
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Assisi
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Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 314
Location: Bucuresti , Romania

PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 13:36    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are close L-Dopa ... though not entirely. Gondor's WP integrated Thaumaturg by atacking his WP.

L-Dopa wrote:

whatīs the problem? at phase 11 the jumping WP jumped and the following WP follows 60LY to the new position of the jumping WP.


The problem was that some time ago ... Thauma had in plan to integrate Marion by HP ... to stop her jumping away. Thaumaturg has a lower ID then Marion and should have moved first. One explanation is that a jump happens before a 60 LY normal move. Or else ...

Regards !
Assisi
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L-Dopa
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 14:16    Post subject: Reply with quote

Assisi wrote:
You are close L-Dopa ... though not entirely. Gondor's WP integrated Thaumaturg by atacking his WP.


but thaumathurg attacks the planet of michimike in this turn, a free party-fight, thaumathurg/michimike/gondor? ok, then is the message " Commander Claudiu (house Thauma_Templars) conquered a solar system
from Member of the House michimike (house AustrianAlliance) (destroyed combat power: 12)" not one point, itīs part of the 3 persons fight, the planet is fallen first in the battle. so right?

Assisi wrote:

The problem was that some time ago ... Thauma had in plan to integrate Marion by HP ... to stop her jumping away. Thaumaturg has a lower ID then Marion and should have moved first. One explanation is that a jump happens before a 60 LY normal move. Or else ...


all WPīs move at the same time. as marion started to move (the jump), thaumathurg started his 60LY flight. as marion landet at his new position, thaumaturg landet on the planet and triggered the battle.

an example for this you can read here: http://www.kosmor.de/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16351
beyond here http://www.kosmor.de/forum/viewtopic.php?p=193227#193227 is your example, with an little text from maelstroem (plz ignore the posts of picard, heīs an idiot and sidious near by)
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_
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 01:39    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see our advantages melt away Sad

Well it works this way:
1. ship attack
2. WP jump
3. WP normal

Just read the Technical Datasheet in the game manual.
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Thaumaturg
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Joined: 24 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 02:17    Post subject: Reply with quote

_ wrote:
I see our advantages melt away Sad

Well it works this way:
1. ship attack
2. WP jump
3. WP normal

Just read the Technical Datasheet in the game manual.


You see in the manual it doesn't says anything about WP jump happening before WP normal movement. I read it well before making this topic.
This is the thing that made everything not link toghether for us. Because we knew about the ID factor but previously there was situations that didn't matched because we didn't knew about 2. happening before 3.

Empi your biggest advantage was and still is our big lack of concentration and coordination. I just made one big mistake 2 days ago Sad

But it's good that things were said here not only for us but for the future wars (until K2) in which those involved have the right to know how the engine works.

Best regards
Thaumaturg
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Ayur
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 02:29    Post subject: Reply with quote

it is like _ wrote... jumps happen before regular movement.
there is no influence of the player ID in this context. maybe the attack order is set by ID (don't know enough about that) but not the order of jump/normal move.
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