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Follow up: Declaration of war
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Merthos
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 12:53    Post subject: Follow up: Declaration of war Reply with quote

This is a follow up to this thread. I moved here as some of my answers won't fit in th RPG.

@Tobi

I had expected more from you. Especially you should know the value of a man's (or women's) word as this was the only thing that granted Hommel's survival for a long time in .de. Well, good luck for your future diplomatic attempts.

Tobi wrote:
...the reign of terror of Merthos...

1. Tobi - 64, 48, 16
...
42. Merthos - 19, 13, 6

So much about the terror.

@Straker/Rheinlaender

Yes, you were a trouble maker. You are the only one who demanded a NAT. Even after I telled you that you should talk to your direct neighbors (btw. they were your subordinates before, why didn't they talk to you) you ran to Tobi crying about the evil Merthos and causing only more trouble.

@Neireh

I had another image of you in my mind and spreading rumors by talking about mysterious stories was not a part of it. But maybe that was a fault. If you have something to tell, don't hold back.

Looking back on my .com life so far there is only one thing I might regret (OK, except trusting Tobi's word or believing in the relationship to CelDorAno and Reacor) and that was the removal of Cortexa (but at that time he left me no other choice).
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Straker
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 14:22    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Yes, you were a trouble maker. You are the only one who demanded a NAT. Even after I telled you that you should talk to your direct neighbors (btw. they were your subordinates before, why didn't they talk to you) you ran to Tobi crying about the evil Merthos and causing only more trouble.


Yes, i asked for a NAT, but i don´t know, that it makes so much trouble to you Confused
And Marduin and Octopus, who attacks the house Colonia, had been my subordinates before? Man, what are you smoking Question
Your postings become more and more confuse.....

PS: I know Tobi and Hommel from .de and talk with them long before i asked you for a NAT Wink
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Ayatollah
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 07:04    Post subject: Reply with quote

One quick notice:
Everybody should know what i think about a NAT-break like Tobi did. We've had such situations in Kosmor.de too (Cortexa conquering Duncan out of a NAT) and i cant tell enough how i dispise it.
It may be a tactical move to break a NAT - but then, the NAT-Breaker should take the consequences wich means, that every honourable House in this Game should stand up and say:
"If you dont stick to your own contracts, we dont stick to ours with you!"

Betrayels like this need to have a lot more influence on the players. Even the honourable Players in House Hommel should stand up and fight against their perfidious leaders.

If treacherous playing like that gets acceptance, the entire NAT-thingy has no sense anymore... why making NATs if everybody looks away when you break them ?!?
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Aurion
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Joined: 31 Jan 2004
Posts: 591
Location: Alpha Section

PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 09:58    Post subject: Reply with quote

Handuro granted Surst shelter, so they broke the nap. And because there was no NAP anymore, there is no 15-day cancel period.

Or do you think, if you can't attack a player, or you will get into war with an other house is not helping?

Quote:
7. If a contractual partner is in war with another house, the other contractual partner assures to not help the opponent of war in any form.


In ANY form.

If we start a war after the NAP was broke, or if we do not, is/was our decision. We felt provocated by Handuro once again this time, so we decided to start a war. You can't blame us for this.

End of discussion.
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Member of the House Aurion in the house Ashera
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Neireh
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 11:16    Post subject: Reply with quote

We had barely a other choice and i don't tell any rumors.. i told only my thoughts. I don't regret anything, only that things evolved how they do. I even hoped it wouldn'd come this way. I'm sorry if you now regret our relationsship that we had. But trut is that Reacor had only survived this long because of we were long time the better neighbour then Kanaani. we were suitable for you.. and truth is that i was told about that there were some voices in Handuro to cancel that treaty that we had and attack Reacor. And also what was with mafia an the other? wasn't it you who demanded them to becoming Handuros ? You who want that i call the forces back and tell my people to leave the two and their sytems free? it was Handuro beginning surounding Reacor completly and cut them off from every other chance of growing furhter. If we weren't surounded from Handuro then Kanaani was the other side. Did you ever give a sign that you would help us ? Only saying how brave we are fighting against a stronger Enemy we had barely a really chance against. That helped us nothing.
We decided to join Hommel when we saw no other perspectives for our future and now we have to take the consequences. I'm not happy about this war, if you believe or not.
All i wanted was security and the chance to grow for my house.
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StrontiumDog
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 11:31    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dearest Aurion,

end of discussion indeed! A man seeking to shout his critics into silence, that must insist on only having heard his last word always has something to hide.

Surely it wasn't Handuro that provided shelter for Surst.

Rather that it was Surst that used his jumpdrive and integrated himself with Handuro.

Now, as I read the declaration of war, it was war with Zamonien, and not with Surst, and not with StrontiumDog. Zamonien no longer exists, and the peace treaties Zamonien had with neighbours no longer exist either.

And it can't be said that Handuro took any tangible action to integrate Zamonien members into Handuro, which would cause a break in this treaty.

Zamonien members undertook this on their own accord, by surrendering their warplanets onto Handuro stars, and not a single Handuro spaceship was used to integrate Zamonien.

How can Handuro be held accountable for a NAT breach when they were the actions of Zamonien housemembers?

Now, if there was a dispute in regard whether Tobi had further right to attack Surst or other ex-Zamonien members after the actions of ex-Zamonien, well this remains within the negotiations held between Tobi and Merthos.

But it's difficult to claim that the issue was resolved, and then turn around and claim it is a breach sometime later that justifies full scale war against all of Handuro, when Handuro were only recipients of the actions of Zamonien members at the time, rather than some kind of active participants as you claim them to be.

regards
StrontiumDog
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Ayatollah
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 12:15    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seriously, Aurion, but if you see bidding Shelter to Players who want to LEAVE the enemy House (weakening it this way) as an act of aggression you truely are blinded by your housemembers lies...

The truth seems to be more like Hommel was just angry that some players avoided getting conquered this way - but what the heck do you expect ?!? That some single players, who dont even ever had a chance against Hommel - just sit around and wait until they get conquered ?!?
Hommel is just pissed off about the loot (planets) they missed due to the players who found shelter at Handuro

Oh, and ive got one more:
In Kosmor.de Hommel was ALWAYS bidding EVERYONE shelter - and you know that. Nodoby ever came to the idea to call that a NAT-Break.... (otherwise Hommel would be the greatest NAT-breaker ever in kosmor.de)

Aurion, i wouldnt have a problem with this situation if you just had cancelled the NAT, keeping the 15 days period - but you BROKE it because you saw that it gives you lots of advantages, and thats the problem. That you would try to justify that now is just what everyone expected - but not with this arguments....

Wink Still not the end of discussion Wink
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facerrider
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 15:37    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is interesting is that almost every member of Hommel participates in war. (Abdul ARES Aurion Celdor Chris Gondor MC-Rap michimike Nagasaki Necros Neireh Ragdoll Tobi trolldude von-gurkel Yukiko)

Are there any honorable members in Hommel? Just copurchasers?
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StrontiumDog
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 16:25    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's interesting is some of these imperators must be vulnerable to their neighbours given their commitment of force in the south east.

Especially Nagasaki, kiddies, he has a lot of fleet down there...... Wink
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StrontiumDog
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 16:26    Post subject: Reply with quote

p.s. what is a copurchaser? Very Happy
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ZayN
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 23:56    Post subject: Reply with quote

facerider.

why not?

in a house they should stick all togehter.
And when its war, they fight together, cuz they are in one house!

if you don't understand this, you are in the wrong game - its a multiplayer game.
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Neireh
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 00:55    Post subject: Reply with quote

ähm you shouldn't throw thing and behavoiurs from .de and.com together, but i know most have problems to leave things behind and play a new game.. this is .com, and nothing what happend in .de should influence the politics or behaviours here.
If nobody ever in .de had called this a nat break, ok their problem
here are some things different
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schaeftlarn
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 01:30    Post subject: Reply with quote

Neireh wrote:
We had barely a other choice and i don't tell any rumors.. i told only my thoughts. I don't regret anything, only that things evolved how they do. I even hoped it wouldn'd come this way. I'm sorry if you now regret our relationsship that we had. But trut is that Reacor had only survived this long because of we were long time the better neighbour then Kanaani. we were suitable for you.. and truth is that i was told about that there were some voices in Handuro to cancel that treaty that we had and attack Reacor. And also what was with mafia an the other? wasn't it you who demanded them to becoming Handuros ? You who want that i call the forces back and tell my people to leave the two and their sytems free? it was Handuro beginning surounding Reacor completly and cut them off from every other chance of growing furhter. If we weren't surounded from Handuro then Kanaani was the other side. Did you ever give a sign that you would help us ? Only saying how brave we are fighting against a stronger Enemy we had barely a really chance against. That helped us nothing.
We decided to join Hommel when we saw no other perspectives for our future and now we have to take the consequences. I'm not happy about this war, if you believe or not.
All i wanted was security and the chance to grow for my house.


Neireh, I'm quite disappointed by the fact that you are now digging deep in history and engaging in distorting facts in order to make the weak position of Hommel (from a moral point of view) looking a bit better. I would also have expected you to make more qualified statements, but well...

I don't really understand why you are now trying to justify the current situation by indicating that Handuro would have attacked Reacor in the past.
You forgot to mention that it was me (responsible for Foreign Affairs of Handuro) who told you that some of our players were asking about options to attack you. And you forgot to mention that Merthos and I sent you letters including security guarantees bound to our words of honor not to question the NAT with Reacor. So why this story now? Smells like cheap propaganda to me.

Mafia: interesting that you are coming up with this issue after we already agreed long ago that it would have been better if you would have integrated and kept this silly troublemaker...

Finally: please be reminded that Reacor and Handuro were bound by a NAT, not by a defensive or offensive military alliance.
Of course we had no benefits in helping you out with your war against Kanaani; for once you provoked this war by yourself - foolish enough if you are the weaker party - and secondly the relations between our houses were good but not good enough to back you up in that war.

Regarding what is going on right now, I'm not yet in a position to comment more in order to cover some of our actions, but be sure that I will call a spade a spade in the forthcoming days whenever someone tries to sell cheap and dirty propaganda in order to justify this blatant break of a NAT... Smile
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Neireh
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 03:49    Post subject: Reply with quote

You foget one thing... history is written by the winners...

I never said that handuro was attacking us, that is something you lay in my words. It is true that you and your Houseleader had guaranteed for our security. But how long when the voices someday get more and stronger ?
And i had to correct you... in first time we didn't provoke them in any way. You know everything, too. Didn't i told you everything ? Sure, if you don't know the background some time before, you could indicate the last fights als provoked attack from us, but you did know the hole story! It take some time to produce some new ships and bring back in Order and we never signed a treaty with them. So who is making propaganda.
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schaeftlarn
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 06:04    Post subject: Reply with quote

Neireh wrote:
You foget one thing... history is written by the winners...

I never said that handuro was attacking us, that is something you lay in my words. It is true that you and your Houseleader had guaranteed for our security. But how long when the voices someday get more and stronger ?
And i had to correct you... in first time we didn't provoke them in any way. You know everything, too. Didn't i told you everything ? Sure, if you don't know the background some time before, you could indicate the last fights als provoked attack from us, but you did know the hole story! It take some time to produce some new ships and bring back in Order and we never signed a treaty with them. So who is making propaganda.


Oh yeah, I forgot about the winners being able to redefine what is right and wrong, truth and lie; so congratulations for you being on the right side this time; enjoy it as the House of Hommel won't stay at the top in its current form for as long as Handuro did... Wink

As a good and well-informed neighbor you knew that in Handuro nothing (important) was going on without the consent of Merthos and me, so the security assurances you had regarding us keeping the NAT were the utmost possible. Full stop.

Regarding your war with Kanaani: well, fact is that you decided to pick up this fight given what happened earlier, hoping for some help from other directions that didn't materialize; it was your own decision to avoid or go for this war against Kanaani, so I fail to see why you are suggesting I would waste my time with propaganda... Smile

But then, this is only a sideshow of what is going on right now, and not even an important one. I sincerely hope that there are other well-known and noble players within Hommel who didn't stop to reflect about what is currently going on and about what is right and wrong...
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