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paveyj
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 18:30    Post subject: Reply with quote

mikeyp200 wrote:
Austria has an Army?


When i was in America, a girl asked the same question about Britains Army. Funny stuff!
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michimike
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 05:23    Post subject: Reply with quote

Then this girl was very stupid Laughing
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BattleKing
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 09:51    Post subject: Re: Absence Reply with quote

michimike,

Hehe...^^ You always manage to fill page up and page down in this forums in what ever you do!!! Well we here in Norway also have to our army service like you guys. I did my many years and had fun - so I am sure you will to.

Your biggest problem droping by us in here will be when you have 2-3 weeks of field service. Unless you have access to a military satelite you can drop us a word...^^

I wish you well & have lot's of fun. By the way - the best pilots in the world are from the Israely Air Force + the best special forces are also from Israel. They just don't compete with other foreign army like the Austrians one's - because they train them...^^

Stay Cool++

Respect Wink Cool
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alphabravo
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 18:18    Post subject: Re: Absence Reply with quote

BattleKing wrote:
the best special forces are also from Israel


oh... i dont know about that Wink

i dont know much about skills of different pilots - but when it comes to elite special forces - SAS, SBS, Gurkas, French foreign legion special ops... i reckon these could out-do Israeli special forces

do you mean MOSSAD, or the purely military ones?
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BattleKing
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 14:53    Post subject: Re: Absence Reply with quote

alphabravo wrote:
oh... i dont know about that Wink


I have served in the French Foreign Legion (+ Norwegian Special Forces) and so I know a little bit about some army stuff. All countries and inter-connected to eatch other. What you listen in TV isn't always the truth...^^ Almost every army in the world train against eatch other. The specialist's from eatch army group inter-act with the others and train eatch other skills up. It all depends where you are fighting and what scenery there is around you.

But the very best Special Forces are with out a doubt the Israely Special Forces. Mossad is like the CIA in America. You are right that it is the special military operation units that acts on behalf of Mossad in most cases. But as CIA agents can have many operations also in civil life...^^

If you remember Top Gun in America? Well that's all true and still excist - the Israely Air Force beat everyone in every dog fight. Then the Egyptian, Norwegian, Austrian, German, Amercian, Pakistanian, Filippines Air Forces etc. started to copy the Israely so the Israely Air Force had to stop training in the Top Gun Project. This because the other air forces started to understand why the Israely was so unbeliveable good in what they did.

All special forces in every country are very good in what they do!!!

Respect Wink Cool
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alphabravo
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 17:22    Post subject: Re: Absence Reply with quote

BattleKing wrote:
Mossad is like the CIA in America
i didn't think you meant mossad, i was just checking though...
but i do think that the gurkhas and royal marine commandos and the SAS/SBS could give any special forces a run for their money Wink

watching the gurkhas training is really cool... they're superhuman Wink

and yes, of course i know every country has their own top gun scheme... and i know they dogfight against each other... i've seen a few F16s on training in scotland, and i've seen a briefing for a tornado GR4 vs F3 dogfight Smile


and the army does so much training in north america against the americans and canadians and rest of the world... we simply dont have enough space to do warfare trials in the UK Wink

i also saw the summary of the debrief from the big naval competition worldwide every now and then, when we were being shown the anti-submarine planes, they showed us stats vs the different subs of the world Wink

but yes, special forces are damned good at their jobs... even in computer games
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michimike
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 08:20    Post subject: Reply with quote

Weekend and I can add some words in here to boast with the Austrian special forces Very Happy

An CIA agent is no special force, he is a spy. But you may know the "seals" of the Marines in the United States from films. They are very good equipped and have special skills.
Multiply their skills and training with 10 and you know approximately what our Jagdkommando is like. It is very hard to become one of those and not easy to be one. I don't know any details about what they do only what is required to join the repertory and it consits of things that only 0.1% of the population is able to do - and you must be able to do all of them. You must be the best swimmer, the best runner, the best jumper, the best shooter, the best fighter and the strongest body builder of all people you know - or something like this - so you can't do their training as a normal mortal human beeing Laughing Wink

And if they did their jobs wrong you would have heared of them (that's the only thing you can compare with the CIA Wink )
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alphabravo
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 08:46    Post subject: Reply with quote

michimike wrote:
I don't know any details about what they do only what is required to join the repertory and it consits of things that only 0.1% of the population is able to do - and you must be able to do all of them. You must be the best swimmer, the best runner, the best jumper, the best shooter, the best fighter and the strongest body builder of all people you know - or something like this - so you can't do their training as a normal mortal human beeing

sounds like the SAS Shocked
one of the mottos they had for recruitment into the royal marine commandos is "99.9% need not apply"
then the sas is much tougher, recruiting mainly from the paratroop regiment (the toughies of the army) and only about 2-5% of applicants are admitted

i guess that most special army forces in the "western" world are rather similar... in the rest of the world, i guess they are fairly similar, but will have training and missions of different types i would imagine.
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Agnar
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:47    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was my understanding that the SAS did not *nescessarilly* require supreme strength of body (though obviously fitness and strength are important). Rather i was under the impression that is is strength of *mind* that they required.
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michimike
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:15    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, I forgot, of course the psyche is important, too. For sure this is the most important exclusion criterion!
I assumed it as self-evident that a IQ of 130 is minimum Laughing Razz
Maybe the SAS is similar in recruitment, I don't know Rolling Eyes

Although if I would be the one of 100.000 people, who achieves all of this, I think I would not join any of those organisations... or maybe? Who knows... I only know that I'm very very far away Laughing
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Gozer
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:49    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
But you may know the "seals" of the Marines in the United States from films. They are very good equipped and have special skills.
Multiply their skills and training with 10 and you know approximately what our Jagdkommando is like. It is very hard to become one of those and not easy to be one.


Sounds like you need a better source than films. First, the SEALs are USN, not USMC.

Second, let's compare training(from Wikipedia):

"In 1961, a group of Austrian officers participated in the US Army's Ranger School as part of their training in order to set up a similar course for the eventual establishment of Jagdkommando."

Rangers aren't in the same league as SEALs.

"In order to become a Jagdkommando soldier, a member of the Austrian Armed Forces has to take the Grundkurs ("Basic Course"). The Grundkurs is a 27-week training course, during which potential future Jagdkommando soldiers are pushed to the limits in a variety of disciplines."

"SEAL recruit training has these components, lasting 48 weeks = 11 months:-
-26 weeks Basic Underwater Demolition/SEAL (BUD/S) training at the Naval Special Warfare Center in Coronado (San Diego, CA)
-3 weeks of additional airborne training at Fort Benning, Georgia.
-At Coronado, 19-week SEAL Qualification Training (SQT). "


Ten times better? I think not.
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Gozer
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:08    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agnar wrote:
It was my understanding that the SAS did not *nescessarilly* require supreme strength of body (though obviously fitness and strength are important). Rather i was under the impression that is is strength of *mind* that they required.


The SEALs look at strength of mind, under duress. Push the body until it can't go any further (exhaustion, cold, etc.), then see how well the brain works.
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michimike
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 08:14    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gozer wrote:
The SEALs look at strength of mind, under duress. Push the body until it can't go any further (exhaustion, cold, etc.), then see how well the brain works.

That's what every normal Austrian soldiers need to do in the first test to become an officer, in an alleviated form (sleep deprivation, exhaustion).

If I understand you correctly you only have to be enough intelligent and the body is only training.... but not all bodies are equal and for Jagdkommando they only take the best ones, which most people would never reach with the best training of the world.

And well, maybe the Seals are Navy and not Marines, never mind. You know what I ment. And if the Austrians visited their training methods, who says that they don't advance them?
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Gozer
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 11:50    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
That's what every normal Austrian soldiers need to do in the first test to become an officer, in an alleviated form (sleep deprivation, exhaustion).


The difference is in the limits. Aren't Jagdkommando candidates put to stiffer tests than reqular officer candidates?

Quote:
If I understand you correctly you only have to be enough intelligent and the body is only training.... but not all bodies are equal and for Jagdkommando they only take the best ones, which most people would never reach with the best training of the world.


Not all bodies, and more importantly wills, are equal. Most aren't capable of completing SEAL, or Jagdkommando, training.

Quote:
And well, maybe the Seals are Navy and not Marines, never mind. You know what I ment. And if the Austrians visited their training methods, who says that they don't advance them?


I'm sure they did. I'm not saying anything bad about your nation's special forces, just disputing what you said about mine. You said yours had ten times the training and skills, I showed you that mine undergo twice the training. Does that say they're better? No. We can compare training numbers all we like, but the true measure is how they do their job, and it is very hard to measure that.
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PureEvil
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 13:25    Post subject: Reply with quote

every countries special forces are the best of the best that they have to offer. it's like saying this guy is better than that one. way back it was said that greece's mountain special forces were the best in the world because of the terrain they trained in. but what if they were in the desert? it all depends on the individual and the way they are.
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